PART TWO Husband Emerging from 8 years in MLC

0:00 Foreign. Hello friends and welcome. Midlife crisis, also known as mlc, is often dismissed as a cliche, but the reality is far more serious. During this period, individuals experience a profound psychological and emotional upheaval leading to impulsive and self destructive decisions that they later regret. Despite the clear signs of instability, MLCers are currently allowed to file for divorce and make irreversible financial and legal choices, often to the devastation of their long term spouses and families. Thank you for joining us today because now you are going to hear people from around the world as they tell their story in their own words about their bomb drops and beyond. The stories and events discussed in this podcast are based on our guest experiences and are intended for informational and entertainment purposes only.

1:03 They should not be considered legal, medical or professional advice. Any names, locations or identifying details have been changed to protect privacy. Any similarities to actual persons, living or dead, or real events are purely coincidental. The views and opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the host or the podcast creators. Listeners should consult with a qualified professional regarding their own circumstances. So today this is our first Part two episode. A few days ago we spoke with John for the first time. He is an MLCER that's been experiencing midlife crisis for about eight years. He was at home the entire time but unfortunately his wife recently moved out and he's ready now for reconciliation. But you'll hear from him about what's going on.

1:58 But he had so much to share with us and we had such a an astounding response from people wanting to hear more from John that we have him back today for a second part interview and he's going to share a little more of his story. He's also going to share little excerpts from a letter that he has written to his wife. And anyway, you're going to hear a little more. So here we go John, because you sort of mentioned it was like a tug of war, you know. Yeah, it was. I lived at home, I always stayed at home, I, I was in love with my wife.

2:39 But I also had a emotional online affair and puts you in a position where you were involved with two people at the same time. And it was very hard a lot of the time. And like we've said, it's like a tug of war in your mind and it came on gradually, that tug of war because as your emotional, I think as your emotional bond increased, that feeling of. It was a feeling of betrayal is a good way to. At least me. I had a feeling of betrayal.

3:29 I knew it pulled at your mind. You knew at some points that at some times you shouldn't. What you're doing really wasn't right. And other times you couldn't control it. That was the hardest thing you knew in your mind. And I sat and looked at my partner sometimes and sat there and thought, how could I do this? But on the other hand, there was that emotional draw, and mine actually became like an addiction because of some of the things that took place as it being online and not. There was times when the emotional connection was withdrawn, and then it came back, and that created a vacuum, and it created addiction to it. And so that happened.

4:33 And there were things that happened in this emotional relationship that I didn't even want to be part of it, but there was still an addiction draw, just like. And you wrestled with it in your mind. And I could sit in a chair and know what I was doing was wrong, but couldn't control it. Yep. And that was the hard part. Did you, in your mind ever think, like, how is this going to end with this woman? You know, that was the problem. And I did. In the end, I tried. I tried a couple different ways to end it, and I tried to.

5:17 There was an opportunity where I could not. Where I could have not. Not messaged. And because of the draw and the addiction, I couldn't. I couldn't. Couldn't do it. And it was very hard. It was. I think, a lot of shock was one of the things that stopped it. I think I was in a certain place in my midlife crisis that allowed the shock to stop it. I mean, when my wife two years ago found out that I was emotionally involved with someone online, I went to a Christian Strongholds class. I took it twice, and I still couldn't break that addiction. That was two years ago. Knew it was wrong then.

6:11 And that's when all this wrestling really started. A lot of it, I mean, you had inklings before that, and it would go through your mind, but it was. It wasn't like I was involved physically with her or saw, so there was some justification. And then when I went through the Strongholds class, that's when it started to become more, this is wrong, but you don't have any control over it. And then this year in October, my wife found out again. And that was the shock part, that I was at the point then where I didn't want to be part of it.

6:53 So it was very easy to shock myself out of it. There was always the fear. And the woman that I was involved with knew how to control, so she Kept this control on me during that time and kept the addiction too, during that time, even though I knew I didn't want to be part of it. And my wife finding out actually gave me the opportunity to get out of it. There was no threat of her finding out anymore.

7:33 I pretty much immediately signed up for counseling. I mean, within a week I was trying to get into counsel. Less than a week, three or four, couple days, I was trying to get into counseling, which takes way too long. It took a month, which is. Which is unacceptable, really, in this day and age. I think if someone needs mental help, you know, mental counseling and help, it should be available almost immediately. And I would have done things a lot differently if I was able to get the correct counseling right away. There were things I could have done that would have made my situation better and I just didn't know how to. I didn't know how to do them.

8:17 I didn't know I was in my midlife crisis either. And you didn't realize that limerence was going on, you know? Right. And it was more than limerence. It was. The person knew how to. To when. Actually, when you go through marriage reconciliation, there's a period of time where you need space. She knew how. She knew how to give space and withdraw it to make you come and go. It's called push, pull. And she knew do that. So that created that vacuum where you always wanted.

8:58 There was always a pull. So it was more than limerence. It was. Was it manipulation? It was psychological manipulation, yeah, psychological manipulation. Wow. Yeah, it was. And I don't know if all other women in these scenarios know how to do that. I think it's very common. I do, I think. And maybe it's because of the way the other person is that causes some of that. I don't know. But it created a hardship for me in the fact that it was hard to escape until it was at a point where it had done a lot of damage. And I think at the two year point, if people had more knowledge, at the two year point, maybe more could have been done. If I knew I was having a midlife crisis, then maybe intervention could have helped.

10:07 I don't know. In my case. Well, we tried intervention with a Strongholds class, but it was more of a. It was a class where you were more on your own and you. It was Christian based, so it was Bible based, which is okay. But this also. This needs professional oversight, this, this type of problem. You need to. There was nobody holding me accountable and that. Would that have helped? Would you have. I think it would have. That's what this is all about. A lot of it is about accountability, at least for me now, is about being accountable for my actions and for what I do and for how it affects people and what it causes.

11:01 That's what you as a human being should be looking at. And I think at two years I was in midlife crisis, I probably could have been dealt with differently if I was diagnosed and treated in a different way and held and there was some accountability standards applied. I think I could have. Maybe some people couldn't because the person has to be agreeable to it too. Yeah, that's part of it. And from what I'm reading, a lot of these people, and I want to say men, because it's. The majority are men, but there are women that go through this.

11:48 They don't want to be accountable. From what I've read, I think I could have if I had some accountability. I knew what was going on. I knew that there was addiction happening and the reason it was happening, I think. But you got to be honest. And that's a hard thing to do when you're going through this. It's very hard. You lie. You lie all the time. And you know that personally, I'm sure, and any other left behind spouse, I'm sure knows that. And I've looked at a lot of the symptoms and compared them to like narcissism. And a lot of them mimic some of the narcissistic traits. You know, an affair, lying, gaslighting, all that stuff happens. And I have in my, in my counsel, because I'm concerned, I'm concerned that am I, am I, could I be a narcissist? Narcissist.

12:54 And I've in my demeanor could lead to traits of that. And I talked with my counselor a lot about that and I finally got an answer from her and she says, no, you're definitely not a narcissist. You did display narcissistic trait. And everybody, A lot of people do. A lot of people do. Regardless. It's part of. Oh, unless you're the, the person that is right in the middle of the road in your. And I forget what they call that person.

13:37 In your character, you, if you're on one end of the scale, if you're a, an avoidant or a anxious person, you do on those ends, you do display narcissistic traits. You aren't a narcissist. You just. And you don't do it all the time, but you, you can do it. So I was concerned about that and I got my answer. And you know, there's, there's ways to, to correct your behavior even as MLC coming out of it. You do have to. There's a lot of corrections that have to be made in yourself. There's a lot of inner. Anybody that's been a midlife crisis person needs to look in to themselves and they need to look at what they've done and how they've reacted and you know, know that, that nobody's perfect. But there's ways to fix those imperfections or, or temper them or, you know, to make them better.

14:41 You know, it's, It's. Do you. I have an idea of how, you know, most MLCers, I think, do have a physical affair. And you didn't. No. No. And I, I have. I just didn't. I don't know if I would have, if it, if, if the opportunity was there, possibly I would have. I don't know. I was never really. That never came to the forefront. And I did meet the person. It was an emotional online affair. I did meet the person four times for probably an hour each time or an hour and a half. There was opportunity probably to do it. I didn't act on it and I didn't. I didn't feel that I comfortable acting on it really. And she try to encourage you to act on. No, no, there was no. It was more emotional.

15:46 An emotional. And when I met with her, it was, it was at a time where I was. The relationship had changed. There wasn't as much emotional attachment at that time. There was a lot of conflict and changed to the point where I was, I was. That's where when I met her, I was already looking for a way out or, or contemplating. This is something like the beginning of the end. Yes. And this is, Is wrong and it's. I need to find a way to stop it and. But the addiction was still there.

16:30 So. So maybe the circumstances weren't right. Do you see what I'm saying? But that never happened. And I thank God that it didn't happen. That's one thing I can say. I've always been faithful to my wife. As far as an adulterous affair, I've never had one and I'm. That's one thing I can be proud of, I guess. Oh, absolutely. I think your wife's very lucky, very fortunate that, you know, an emotional affair is. Is rough and not ideal, but, you. Know, it's a, It's a, It's a betrayal, it's a breaking trial, which is, is very Bad. It's. It's not.

17:14 It's. It's almost as I wanted to say, it's as bad as an adulterous affair. No, many say it is because it really hurts. Oh, yeah. The wound is still there. And healing from that is. It's got to be a terrible thing. Well, do you feel like you destroyed something that could never be repaired? No, I don't, because I've done a lot of work on that end of it, and there's things that need to happen to repair it, and both parties have to be willing and dedicated to doing that. But it can be repaired, and it takes a lot of work, a lot of accountability and a lot of change.

18:06 And I want to say I'm willing to do the work, and I have done a lot of it already, and you have to do it anyways. If you're. If you're not going to be with that partner and you plan on being with someone else, that work has to be done or you're taking this whole mess somewhere else. Exactly. And if you don't do that, you're just going to be in trouble again in a different way. Probably. You may not be in a midlife crisis, but you'll have similar problems, I'm sure. If you could turn back time, is there anything you could do differently?

18:49 I don't. You know, from the time that you were sitting in the living room and that feeling in your head, you had the panic attack. If I knew. If I knew what I know now, if I knew that that panic attack was the start of a midlife crisis. If someone, you know, if someone is having midlife crisis symptoms and there's enough of them, they're easy to spot some intervention at that time with the person. The thing is, they don't believe it, and I probably wouldn't have at that time either.

19:31 But if some intervention can be made at that time, especially early, there might be a chance of changing the outcome. There might not be, because midlife crisis, there's varying degrees of them. Why do some just do certain things and others have these extreme, extremely destructive patterns? Yours was not as destructive. Oh, yeah, you're very lucky. Yeah, I guess. But some are less destructive than mine. So how. Where, how, how does that. Where does that variation come from?

20:21 And, you know, that's something that might need to be addressed at the mental health level. And what can be done to minimize the. The damage from them. Exactly. And I know you said it should be taken more seriously as a psychological issue. Yes, most definitely. It's a mental health issue. And it needs to be dealt with as a mental health issue. And that awareness that it is may bring people to the forefront to address it and treat it before it has a problem of being so detrimental that it destroys a person's two, two or can destroy entire family. More than two lives, it destroys a whole family.

21:09 Yeah. Yeah, it is. You know, you had mentioned the other day it had written a letter and I thought you might like to read that. It, you know, I've heard your letter and I thought it could almost be a letter that could go to almost any left behind spouse. Yeah, I wrote, I wrote a letter. My wife, right after this happened, she asked, and she asked the first time, you know, how, why, why did this happen? How, how could this happen? And I couldn't give a good answer. I just, I just said, you know, there was affirmation, it made me feel good, there were compliments, made me feel younger, did all the, you know, did those things.

21:58 I couldn't pinpoint why, you know, what. Actually hold it right when you said that. Like if your wife had said, if she had, you know, maybe, you know, people get into a routine and so she probably just wasn't giving you as many compliments. And the affirmation thing, if she had, do you think that would have made a difference? I don't know. And I've thought about that. She does, she does come. She did compliment me. There were certain things she did and I can remember them, but it wasn't the same. It wasn't an emotional connection. It was a, it was more of a compliment out of duty than a, than an emotional connection.

22:42 And, or that's at least what it felt like. So, yeah, that in. And I thought that in this process, late in it, I thought, you know, how can I emotionally. How do I get the feeling I'm getting from her and not from my wife? Yep. Why is that? And that's part of this answer that I've written. And I wrote it to her. And I'm not going to say the name because you don't want names. You asked why I did what I did. I was never able to give you a satisfactory answer. The question was asked of me in a support group I'm in. And the support group is the one that you're into. Because of counseling that I have done, I am now better able to answer that in a more meaningful way. A person in the group said that I needed to share that with you as it was one of the biggest questions.

23:44 From what I understand, life changing events tend to cause midlife crisis. I didn't real even realize I was in one until someone from the marriage restoration support group that I'm in said that I should take a test. And it was the test for midlife crisis. You. It was a midlife crisis test and I had about 80% of the symptoms and most of the bad ones. From what I gather. It began in 2017. I began to experience. Oh, I began to experience a midlife crisis. Apparently I had depression which I've had for the most part of my life. I think work and pressure of my job weighed on me more than I anticipated. I remember about a time in 2017 sitting in chair and had the feeling of almost a panic attack.

24:44 It felt like life was closing in around me, like something was compressing on me and that time and space was very short. These came and went and weren't all the time and didn't last that long, maybe an hour or so. I ignored them like most MLCs probably would do. MLC is very destructive, is very self destructive. I made poor decisions and did things way out of character. Midlife crisis is a mental illness to the extent that I had it. And the things that I did were so out of character. But due to the reasons I did some of these things, I was depressed and had been for a very long time. I was insecure about my life. I kept thinking about getting older and what would become of us.

25:34 How was I to stop the work that I was doing but still manage the property that I have and have been doing for quite some time and where would that leave us? I was insecure about myself and how long I could manage all the things that I had over the years. How would I be able to transition all of this? I was also and always had been insecure in our marriage. I always deep inside felt you were more than what I deserved. You were always beautiful in my eyes. Oh, this is a thing that I'm pretty sure my first great experience led to to this and always questioning myself. I had a very poor first grade. I missed a lot of days in school.

26:27 I actually hung on the door frames and they had to drag me out of the house to bring me to school. I also believe that some of my parenting had led to some of this also. And I didn't want to go into that with her way I was brought up. Sure. And I have forgiven that and it was relieved me from that burden. And that's some of this is you carry burdens throughout your life and they weigh on their subconscious and they weigh on you and they affect your life and they affect things that you do without you knowing it even.

27:10 I felt I owe you an explanation for the wrongs I did. And I know I owe you the deepest apology for them and I repent for all of them that I've done. And I felt it was important for her to know. And there's a lot more to it than that. If we were to go to counseling, there was a lot more. That's surface level of how it happens. There's a lot more in depth things in a person that cause you to be who you are. And that's really what you need to figure out. You need to figure out who you are and the person you're with needs to figure out who they are. And then there is ways to modify that so that you are better people for each other. And I have a question for you. Now that you've gone through all this, you've obviously you've done a lot of work on yourself. You are so. It seems like you're just very evolved. I'm driven.

28:20 Do you feel like you're more. You've even grown as a person? Oh, yeah, I have. I grew as a person. Two years ago when this happened, I didn't grow, I didn't act on it because being in a midlife crisis under the circumstances that were happening to me, but I did grow. I remember certain things that happened, like in that class that I took about strongholds. I know. I remember all of the things that took place and.

29:01 And if I was probably not in a midlife crisis, it would have helped me a lot more. But yeah, you know, that's growing as a person is. You gotta keep growing. And in a midlife crisis, I think you do stop in a way. Oh yeah. Because you revert. Yeah. I think you don't evolve. You don't. You're kind of stuck in a. In a. You know, less mature. A little bit. Yeah. Yes. Well, you are. Because I think what I read is that somebody who has a physical affair tends to go back to a. More. More like a 17 year old mind. Yeah, I would say.

29:45 I would say that. I don't think I. I went back to that. If you look at it that way. I was probably more in my 20s. If I haven't really looked at it like that, it would take more reflection for me to say much more than that. I don't know. But yeah, you are kind of stuck in a time warp and you don't grow as a person. There are things that my wife said to me that I should do. And it is part of this growing process, you know, being a better person, having goals.

30:26 You know, I was, and she knew I was pretty on goal oriented at the time and I always had been, but I, I, and I answered it, what do you want a retired person? How many goals can a retired person have? You know, and I did, I, I was quote unquote retired. I still did a lot of other work. I had jobs, you know, that I did. So I technically wasn't retired, but I had a lot of free time. And I don't know if anybody's equated free time to this and the amount of free time you have where you can do or propagate the things that occur in a midlife crisis. Do you see what I'm saying?

31:17 Has anybody free time sort of opened the door to that? I think so. In some ways it could have. It just popped in my head, so, and my wife had said it during it, you know, you've got too much time on your hands. And maybe there's some validity to that, that you have opportunity and time to do things that you shouldn't be doing. Because before that you were always busy working, doing one thing.

31:58 Yes, I was so busy, I didn't have time for that. Well, you are clearly very self aware and, and I think that's a huge thing to be at that point now. That's great. Yeah. I've read some about people in midlife crisis and it's from the left behind spouse. So I don't know if it's like that midlife crisis, people that have come out of it don't seem to remember what they did. I don't know, maybe I have forgotten it and can't regurgitate it, but I seem to remember a lot of what I did and knowing that it wasn't right and that I had too much time on my hands and that, that kind of thing. So maybe we shouldn't let folks have too much time on their hands. Well, or, or you need to have a direction and that's some of it. You lost a direction.

33:05 And if someone loses direction or purpose, we should be. And they're showing signs of midlife crisis, then we should be doing something. Somebody should be saying, this person's having a problem, there needs to be some intervention. Yep. Yeah, that's, that's a really good point for people to just be more aware and you know. Yeah, I think I started on that subject of awareness and in the different, different spectrum of a midlife crisis from not doing Much to doing a lot. I started to evaluate people that I know to see if they've been one. And like, I have a very good friend who I think has been through a midlife crisis. It wasn't bad.

33:58 He spent a lot of money, but he spent it on his children, and he did things to improve their lives. He spent more than enough so that I thought, you're going to have to live in your old age sometime on something. Why are you spending all this money? Do you see what I mean? Like, he was jeopardizing his. I mean, let's face it, we're all going to get old and have to survive. He was jeopardizing his security. Yes, I felt that. And I thought just not too long ago, I knew he was doing this, but I didn't equate it to a midlife crisis. Maybe it was.

34:46 I don't know. But I have begun to evaluate people. It's weird. Everybody that seems to, like, in the marriage restoration group I'm in, certain people will comment on, my partner is doing this and this and this. And I just put, your partner's having a midlife crisis. And I give them the hero spouse Facebook page. Oh, that's great. That's fantastic. Because you know what? Otherwise they're gonna. It's gonna take them several years to understand. And you can spot it a mile away. When it gets to a certain point, you can. I mean, they've moved out of the house, they've done this, they've done that, or they're. It's completely out of character. Yep. You can spot it. They do certain. Even when they haven't moved, I can spot it before then. And I guess it's a good thing. And I have talked to a person in Australia on a different site, and her husband was basically doing the same thing I was. And he was very early in it and to where he was just talking to people online and his wife had found out about it. And I was in the process of finding out about midlife crisis then.

36:05 So I gave her some advice that might not have been. I said, you need to make them accountable. And I don't know if accountability at that time would help or if it would push them further into it, because I've been told that if you try to correct them, it pushes them further into it. Yep. It's strange how that works. Isn't that crazy? Because you're trying to give advice, but it pushes them further and further and further and. Yeah, it really. Psychological mystery, you know, I'll tell you this. There's another person that I gave advice to when I gave her the opposite advice, but this person in Australia confronted him and I stressed to her that you need to get professional help and you need to get religious help. Get both, because one helps with the. The. The actual midlife crisis and how to deal with it and how to deal with yourself as a person. And the other.

37:07 The Christian act. The Christian part, counseling part actually acts on the emotional part in how you're supposed to treat people and how you're supposed to. It does help. It brings in a. That emotional, loving part to your marriage, which sometimes in a midlife crisis, that's lacking. But anyways, the person in Australia did that. And the last time I talked to her, they had agreed to go to counseling, professional counseling. And that's part of this problem too, is our professional counselors don't have enough knowledge and information on midlife crisis and what they are and how detrimental they can be. And I said, go to someone.

38:02 I think in the end I had known about midlife crisis and I told her, make sure they know that he is in a midlife crisis. Yep. Because it does need to be treated differently. Yes, yes, it does. And it needs to be looked at. Counselors need to be educated in it, in how to treat it and what it is. And more study needs to be done on that too, on what it is. But there is another person that I talked with that had it. That was in that same. In a different marriage group. And it was classic.

38:43 Her husband had moved to the basement. And I told her he's in a midlife crisis. And she joined the hero's spouse's community and bred quite a bit. And she was very angry. And I told her to be careful. Don't make ultimatums. Don't give him ultimatums. That's probably the worst thing you can do. I said, always leave a spot where he can escape from that if you're going to try to pressure him. And I said, pressure is probably not a good thing. But she was very determined that she was going to. I said, counseling is probably the best thing. I think in the end, he did agree to it.

39:28 He had been in the military and could get. He was, you know, through. Through the veterans. He could get counseling. And I think in the end he agreed to counseling too, which I think that's the best we can do at this point is try to get people to professional help and then now get the professional help educated so they know what it is and better spot it and better recognize it and find a better way to treat it. Yep. Well, John, you have been such a blessing to our listeners here to give them some real insight, and I think you're such a. Obviously such a blessing to all the people you've reached out to to be able to, you know, give them that advice.

40:14 Yeah, they don't find that. I'm sure it totally helps. Well, I'm gonna. I'll end our interview here. Thank you so much. And. And we're gonna be continuing to stay in touch with you to see how it goes with, you know, potential reconciliation that we're. We're praying that that'll work for you guys. Yeah, I hope so, too. I'll. I'm just going to become a better person. That's all anybody can do. Yeah, that's perfect. All right. Thank you, John. Thank you. Bye. Bye. So after hearing some of these stories, I hope you guys out there will realize that MLC should be recognized as a serious mental health and legal issue. Until there are systems in place to ensure that individuals that are in crisis are not making irreversible decisions, countless spouses and families will continue to suffer unnecessary devastation. It's time for the mental health and legal communities to address this growing problem and implement protections that recognize MLC as a legitimate temporary psychological impairment. Thank you for joining us today. Stay strong, stay awesome, and join us soon for another episode of midlife Crisis, Bomb Drop and Beyond.